The price we pay

One idiots opinion

Published on May 18, 2005 By thatoneguyinslc In Politics

Howdy folks,

I have been following Dabe's article "The Confederate Flag" recently. Rarely do i ever feel the need to expand on someones thread. I figure it's not my place to run with or against the author's writings. But, as usual the ever touchy subject of racism has turned ugly. I just wanted to say one thing to everybody on both sides.....ok?

You don't have to like the other person or their arguement. But, you have to accept the fact they have differing opinions. It's part of the game.

On a personal level, i find the rebel flag offensive and believe that it should be relegated to the trash heap of history along with the Nazi flag. It represents a defeated enemy of the United States of America. I find it ironic that those who fly the rebel colors also proudly wrap themselves in the stars and stripes. I also find it hypocritical, and disrespectful to a vast majority of americans as well.

But hey, I'm just one person! I know for a fact that there's millions of people who will vehemently attack me for my beliefs.

That's the price we pay for freedom of speech.

I'm with you on the issue Dabe. But i have to say that it's private citizen's right to fly any flag they want. Even if it does represent an ugly and tragic past.

Thanks for reading,
thatoneguyinslc

Link

Comments (Page 1)

chiprj

on May 18, 2005

Very nice piece (I said piece) and well worded. I didn't see the article that inspired this, but from what you've written here, it sounds as if it's turned real ugly and I usually try to avoid posts like that.

I agree with you completely. I also find the flag distasteful, at best. I'm struggling with how to word how I feel, but simply put, American citizens stood beneath that flag and killed other American citizens in a war that should never have been fought. And that's just to start.

But, I agree also, that other peoples' opinions are just as valid as mine. I may not agree, but it's their right to believe as they do and my right to disagree. Just as it's my right to speak my opinion and be disagreed with.

Thanks!

Manopeace

on May 19, 2005

I'm with you on the issue Dabe.

Dabe does not present issues... she presents tyrades of opinions... then refuses to listen to another one.. even if its on her side.Tp present an issues is to do just that...but to defent that issue you need an open mind and the ability to communicate. Dabe does not have that.

dabe

on May 19, 2005

Excuse me mano, but I expressed my opinion, then got vilified for it. I am so hated here, that all I do is post anything, and it's called a diatribe. I posted my feelings about the racism associated with the confederate flag. People didn't just post their opinions. It veered into a "let's hate dabe" frenzy. I respond accordingly.

Besides, have you read any of moderateman's diatribes lately. Those are more than opinions; they are tirades of hateful diatribes, by all definitions of these terms. I find it interesting that he can post his venom, and get all these sloppy back-slapping affirmations. I find it interesting that someone can use the confederate flag as an avatar, and get all these same back-slapping jingos come to his defense, with these amazing rationalizations and denials of its symbology. It's shameful, at best. I find it amazing that someone with the senses you have about our world can join these jingo hatefests. Mano, you should take a long hard look at who you're selling out when you respond about my "diatribes". In my opinion, you're selling out your own concience in order to have these jingos love you. Think about that, instead of immediately attacking me, the messenger.

thatoneguyinslc

on May 19, 2005

(Shaking head)

I think i understand how Dabe feels. I've been in the same boat before. You may not like what she has to say. Nobody says you have to like what anybody says. Including those who oppose her here on JU.
But everybody is entitled to their opinions. If you dont like what someone is saying...Don't read and/or comment on their posts! That goes both ways too. If you don't like what Mod says, Don't read his posts either!

C'mon folks, We are adults here.

And thanks Chip.

ParaTed2k

on May 19, 2005

I used to have a little fun with the "The South Will Rise Again" folks I served with in the Army. I'd laugh and say...

"Well, how does it feel to have taken an oath that says that if the South does try to rise again, you'll do everything in you power to beat it right back down?" ;~D

For the record Dabe, I doubt I've agreed with much you've ever said, and I've probably thrown a few keyboard cracks your way, but I can honestly say that I've never hated you.

Dr Guy

on May 19, 2005

YOur points are well taken. But the ones who made that flag a symbol of racism, was not the southern bigots, it was the northern Republicans (Read NJ's series). And that stereotype is perpetuated to this day.

No one is going to change what the flag represents to some, but to others that flag represents their heritage. A heritage not based upon hate or bigotry, but a kinder simpler time. You may not agree with that assessment, but that is the truth. It is no wonder they call it the Ante-Bellum south, for the war drastically changed a way of lilfe, and I am not talking about the slavery aspect of it.

The problem with Dabe's article is that she branded everyone who owns or holds that flag dear as a bigot and racist. And that is just a bigotted and racist statement with no bearing on the truth.

You may not like it, I may not like it, but many southerners do for the reason it is a part of history, their history. As this is America, it is not against the law to own the flag, or even to display it. And it is not against the law to hate it.

But to label everyone a racist because of it is stupid and ignorant. And that is what got her into trouble.

thatoneguyinslc

on May 19, 2005

In the end Guy, it's not Dabe who made that flag a symbol of hatred and bigotism. It was the folks who flew it during a racist and cruel period of our countries history. To blame it on the north is inacurate. To say that everyone who likes the rebel flag is a devout follower of those principles is also inacurate.

Racism will always dog those who fly it. It represents racism to a great many americans. Not just black folks. It also represents a group of people who are proud to be from the south who aren't racists. It's a double edged sword at best.

Just like anything else in life. It's all about how you view it.

Ted,

That's pretty funny, and sad at the same time. Insightful too! You get a cookie man!

Dr Guy

on May 19, 2005

The problem here is the use of the absolutes.

As Dabe did. That is why she was BBQed. Not for stating her opinion, but for calling everyone (even those she never has or will meet) a racist bigot.

I will not debate who made it a symbol of hate, as I take it that is not the point of your article and we can debate that at another time.

thatoneguyinslc

on May 19, 2005

Absolutes? I left the door wide open! Sheesh!

Dr Guy

on May 19, 2005

The problem here is your use of the absolutes. I stated none. You cannot use absolutes to make a point because there are always exceptions, and you just did.

Absolutes? I left the door wide open! Sheesh!

YOu are correct, and I appologize. I misread your previous statement. I left that part above, but corrected the original post.

thatoneguyinslc

on May 19, 2005

Thanks Guy. Appreciate it!

just john

on May 19, 2005

I am from the south. I grew up in rural Alabama in the late 70's. I have seen a burning cross first hand. I lived in Tennessee for a while. I have seen the KKK march in Pulaski, TN. I have seen many examples of racism up close and personal. These are terrible symbols of hatred. I saw the cross burn in the yard of my 4th grade teacher because she offered aid to a young black girl and it offended the hateful members of the KKK.

I am from the south. I grew up in rural Alabama in the late 70's. I have seen the beautiful anit-bellum homes that line Government St. in Mobile, AL. I have seen the way the Azaleas bloom in the fall and the beauty it brings. I lived in Tennessee for a while. I have seen the majesty of the Great Smokey Mountains. I have seen the power and glory of the Mighty Mississippi. These are wonderful symbols of my heritage and upbringing.

I have seen the flag in question flown in both of these worlds. I have also seen and been victim to racial hatred. I was held at gun point because seven black guys wanted to scare the little white boy.

I don't let that one experience of hatred dictate my impression of every black person I meet and I will not let what some people choose to use a symbol of my heritage for cloud what it means to me. To me this is a symbol of my heritage. Don't let it dictate your impression of me without getting to know me first.

drmiler

on May 19, 2005

No.... you were villified for the "hate and contempt" that *you* put in the post. Stating ones opinions are well and good. But there was never any need for the hate you put in it. And "that" is why people respond the way they do to your posts. Because the hate shows up in each and every post.

Gideon MacLeish

on May 19, 2005

I fly the rampant lion (Scottish flag). Why do I do it? Because I have sworn allegiance to Scotland...NO! Because my HERITAGE is Scottish, and it's a heritage I am proud of.

I don't fly the confederate flag, but because it's the flag of a foreign nation, NOT because it represents HATE (if you think it does, a little more research is in order), NOT because it represente the Klan (which has been FAR more powerful in NORTHERN states such as Indiana and Ohio than in the south).

I have seen racism in both the north and the south. There's a substantial difference, and, frankly, the NORTHERN racism concerns me far more than southern racism ever did.

But back to topic, let's "clean out our own backyard first", so to speak and encourage black youths to stop using the "N word" as a badge of honor, as so many still do. That bugs me worse than seeing a confederate flag.

Dr Guy

on May 19, 2005

As a social experiment, (and to help prove his point) he titled it "No doubt about it, White People ARE the Master Race.) The body of the article had nothing to do with racism itself, the headline was a trick to get us to click, and nothing more.

Thanks for the link. I had purposefully skipped that one cause I thought it was just what Shovel was describing.

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