The price we pay

One idiots opinion

Published on May 18, 2005 By thatoneguyinslc In Politics

Howdy folks,

I have been following Dabe's article "The Confederate Flag" recently. Rarely do i ever feel the need to expand on someones thread. I figure it's not my place to run with or against the author's writings. But, as usual the ever touchy subject of racism has turned ugly. I just wanted to say one thing to everybody on both sides.....ok?

You don't have to like the other person or their arguement. But, you have to accept the fact they have differing opinions. It's part of the game.

On a personal level, i find the rebel flag offensive and believe that it should be relegated to the trash heap of history along with the Nazi flag. It represents a defeated enemy of the United States of America. I find it ironic that those who fly the rebel colors also proudly wrap themselves in the stars and stripes. I also find it hypocritical, and disrespectful to a vast majority of americans as well.

But hey, I'm just one person! I know for a fact that there's millions of people who will vehemently attack me for my beliefs.

That's the price we pay for freedom of speech.

I'm with you on the issue Dabe. But i have to say that it's private citizen's right to fly any flag they want. Even if it does represent an ugly and tragic past.

Thanks for reading,
thatoneguyinslc

Link

Comments (Page 2)

Dr Guy

on May 19, 2005

That's because you don't know Shovel! He writes wonderful, masculine adventure tales, poignant personal musings, and really insightful pieces about life and love and women and harleys and women and beer and women and even god sometimes.

I do read most of his stuff, and yes, thought that was very atypical. Until I did actually read it.

I dont recall reading Dylan. I hope she is not gone, as I would like to check her out.

thatoneguyinslc

on May 19, 2005

I am a firm believer in the "reap what you sow" philosophy. My purpose in writing this article was not to choose sides. I do hold the same opinion as dabe when it comes down to it. But the reason i wrote it was to point out that neither side in this issue was gaining any ground.

I do need to point out one thing Whip. (you're not gonna like it, but i say it in the vein of "constructive criticism" so don't hate me for it.) I have seen you on many occassions react in a similar manner when challenged on an issue. That's not to say it's right or wrong. Not my place to judge. But because of this, i find it very hard to believe what you are saying holds water when it comes to wether or not Dabe is on a rantful diatribe.

I support her right to voice her opinion. Much like i support Miler's opinion. I don't agree with it at all, or some of Dabe's methods.

But that's the price we pay. Y'all need to accept it and get over this. Really!

thatoneguyinslc

on May 19, 2005

I missed her comment on Shovel's article. I'll read it later.

shadesofgrey

on May 19, 2005

Thatoneguy--Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the confederate flag. I often question the motives of people who fly it--but have found that, like Dr. Guy and others have pointed out, many are flying it as a representation of the past glory of the South--granted slavery plays a part in this, but racial superiority is not what they are "celebrating."

That said, my own disdain for the flag should not prevent someone else from flying it. I may not like it, but I do not have the right to tell someone that they can not fly it. It is the same with flag burning--it might make me sick/offended/hurt to see it, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be allowed.

I fly the rampant lion (Scottish flag). Why do I do it? Because I have sworn allegiance to Scotland...NO! Because my HERITAGE is Scottish, and it's a heritage I am proud of.

I don't fly the confederate flag, but because it's the flag of a foreign nation

I'm confused--are you saying that the flag of Scotland is not the flag of a sovereign nation, and the confederate flag is? I think I missed something in reading that. But, since I enjoy useless trivia--here is some on the Rampant Lion. The Rampant Lion is actually the royal flag of Scotland (the St. Andrew's cross being the more traditional flag--also believed to be the oldest national flag of any country). The Rampant Lion should, strictly speaking, be used by Queen Elizabeth (or monarch in general) in her official capacity as the Queen of Scotland. In 1934, King George V signed a Royal Warrant declaring that the flying of the Rampant Lion was a "mark of loyalty" to the crown.

Gideon MacLeish

on May 19, 2005

shades,

Chalk that statement up to the "poorly worded" file. The confederate flag represents a foreign nation with which 1) I do not identify, and which, as a foreign nation, declared open and active war on my country. While Scotland's sons provided conscripts for Britain in the revolution, they were not a sovereign nation at the time, but subjects of the British Empire.

Apologies for the poor verbiage.

Dr Guy

on May 19, 2005

While Scotland's sons provided conscripts for Britain in the revolution, they were not a sovereign nation at the time, but subjects of the British Empire.

They were the vassals of a sovereign nation that declared war on the US. Small difference.

shadesofgrey

on May 19, 2005

shades,

Chalk that statement up to the "poorly worded" file.

I thought I wasn't getting it, but wanted to empty my brain of that useless information on Scottish flags anyway! Hope you don't mind!

Gideon MacLeish

on May 19, 2005

naaah, don't mind at all!

MasonM

on May 19, 2005

The confederate flag represents a foreign nation with which 1) I do not identify, and which, as a foreign nation, declared open and active war on my country

Actually the Confederate States simply seceded from the Union. The Union declared war on them in response.

citsym nogard

on May 19, 2005

On a personal level, i find the rebel flag offensive and believe that it should be relegated to the trash heap of history along with the Nazi flag.

To compare the Confederate flag to the nazi one is an insult & a lie. You owe your fellow Americans an apology.

Contrary to popular lie, the Confederate flag represents a proud people fighting for their way of life.

To say that the Confederate flag represents slavery & racism, you must also say that the Union flag also represents slavery & racism. Both sides had slave owners & both sides had racists. The Civil war was not fought over slavery, the Union was not so altruistic. It was fought over two conflicting ways of life, nothing more. And as in any war there must be a winner & a loser. Only after the war start did the Union used the issue of slavery, & it was used as a political tool & a leverage.

To say all Confederates are white racists & support slavery (then & now) is a lie. Most are not racists & hate racism. To be honest there are racist Confederates, but there are racists of all types; white, black, north & south. Nobody has a monopoly on it. During the war the bulk of the soldiers didn't own slaves & the majority of them didn't believe in it. Now-a-days, I think most Confederates would be appalled if they ever heard someone say they wanted to own another person. I know I would be & I wouldn't be very polite in my response. I think if people take a close look at their family tree they will find blacks, whites & indians somewhere in there. I know when I joined the military I had to be a minority, in my area, to get in. No whites were allowed. Wasn't a problem for me to get in.

I'm struggling with how to word how I feel, but simply put, American citizens stood beneath that flag and killed other American citizens in a war that should never have been fought.

And what about the flag of the Union? You must also hate it as well. It represents the exact same thing. In fact there is not one flag on this planet that hasn't had another's blood on it.

War is a history lesson of what will happen when 2 sides cannot sit down, be adults & talk to work out their differences.

thatoneguyinslc

on May 19, 2005

My god, that is quite possibly the worst retort i have ever had posted in my blog.

And just so you know, it's my opinion. i owe no one an apology for it.

NJforever

on May 19, 2005

Actually the Confederate States simply seceded from the Union. The Union declared war on them in response.

Not entirely true. War was not declared when they seceded. The Union adopted a somewhat conciliatory attitude toward the Confederacy until they attacked and captured Fort Sumter. I'm so historically nit-picky.

(Read NJ's series).

Oh, you tout my series so much, you may even finally get past my bloated ego and make me feel modesty.

-----

on May 19, 2005

--Not officially, though tons of northerners wanted to go south and kick the "pants" off off the southerners.....that they were traitors,etc... and i too am historically nit-picky.....

NJforever

on May 19, 2005

--Not officially, though tons of northerners wanted to go south and kick the "pants" off off the southerners.....that they were traitors,etc... and i too am historically nit-picky.....

True, popular opinion was for war. My only point is that war did not come until the fall of Fort Sumter. And there is nothing more noble than being historically nit-picky.

thatoneguyinslc

on May 19, 2005

I'm glad i can make you chuckle once in a while whip.

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