Kingbee, your "Kerry" analogy doesn't work. Being a Naval Officer, Kerry volunteered, he also volunteered for Swiftboat duty... in fact he was all for the war in Vietnam until his own attrocities turned him against it.

But let's not go off making the example the point... The point is, he was not against the war, nor was he opposed to fighting in it. He chose to go and chose to participate beyond the requirements of his MOS. For a mechanic to have gotten permission to leave the motorpool for a day would most likely had taken a lot of pestering by him to his motor sergeant. Yes, that part is speculation on my part, but it is based on experience.

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As far as the funeral thing, you didn't answer my question. No problem, it wasn't a fair question anyway. The point was, he has met with many of the families of those killed in Iraq and that takes both guts and a concern for them that you and Mrs. Sheehan are both unwilling to accept or recognize. I understand that nothing he does will ever be good enough, that is the nature of the political beast.

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As for photos of flag draped coffins at Dover, what do we need with ghouls with press cards hanging around Dover for? If you get off on seeing pics of flag draped coffins or negative images from Iraq, surf the web for awhile, it doesn't take long to find as much as your eye wants to take in.

Prs. Bush didn't originate the moritorium, but I for one am glad he is willing to honor our fallen troops by continuing it. The only people I know who are against it are people who want nothing more than to use the image as part of an anti Bush agenda. Leave the troops who have been killed alone, they have done enough.


We obviously won't agree in this topic, but that is ok. I do wonder why the press doesn't give those who have lost loved ones and support the war even the slighest portion of the coverage Cindy Sheehan has enjoyed, but then again they aren't being bankrolled by George Soros, Michael Moore and the "hate Bush at all costs" crowd either. Sad... there are some really great stories there.

Leave the troops who have been killed alone, they have done enough.

From a follow soldier, Ahman.

Prs. Bush didn't originate the moritorium

who did?

sorry i may have misunderstood you to be saying there was a presidential moratorium (altho in a way i guess that's true since the pentagon's moratorium on photographs at dover was started by the first president bush).

incidentally, here's barbara bush's response when asked if she hadda problem with the restriction on photos of caskets bearing the remains of those killed in action:

"Why should we hear about body bags and death and how many? ... Oh, I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"

Annnnnd the troll goes to Karma.

You troll me because I disagree?  I think that you have a very wrong sense of what "trolling" means.

I hope I never hear you claim "freedom of speech" on here, because you obviously only like "freedom of speech" if it agrees with you.

If you want people to have rights, then *all* people have to have them.  If you want people to display fallen soldiers names, then it needs to be in a respectful way to *them*, NOT for a hidden agenda.  She is not paying tribute to the fallen soldiers by using their names to protest the war.  Those sons and daughters died doing something they believed in.  It's not her right to use their names in that way.  How do you think the families who believed in what their children died for feel?  What about their rights?  Yes, the guy who drove through those crosses did a very sick thing, but I think that Sheehan did, too.

Hmm....so the crosses were on Dubya's property...which means that she was on his property....wouldn't that mean that she was trespassing?  The President's property is not "public" anymore than anyone else's is.  So how is it that her protest is not breaking any laws? 

I am not "pro-war".  I don't even agree with the war.  BUT, I 100% support our troops and the freedom that they uphold.  Nobody like war.  Nobody wants to see our fellow Americans die.  But, those sons and daughters died for America and freedom. To exploit those fallen soldiers in the name of "protest" is simply wrong.

Actually, according to the Socialist Worker, Sheehan said: “He planned a five-week vacation while we’re in the middle of war, and I’m never going to be able to enjoy another vacation because he killed my only son. If he doesn’t come out and talk to me in Crawford, I’ll follow him to D.C. and camp out on his lawn there until he finds the integrity to talk to someone whose life he has ruined. “Casey was murdered by Bush and his insane, arrogant, callous foreign policy. What did my son die for? Last week, Bush said my son died in a noble cause. And I want to ask him what that noble cause is."

Thank you very much baker!

Still didn't find anything even close to Cindy saying dubya was a "murderer". Miler. Swing and a miss....Strike three. You Mod and Guy all took a crack at it.

Now who's the swing and miss? Looks like you just got shut down by baker.

sorry i may have misunderstood you to be saying there was a presidential moratorium (altho in a way i guess that's true since the pentagon's moratorium on photographs at dover was started by the first president bush). incidentally, here's barbara bush's response when asked if she hadda problem with the restriction on photos of caskets bearing the remains of those killed in action: "Why should we hear about body bags and death and how many? ... Oh, I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"

Which means exactly what? This is not the current first lady is it? Nope. What Barbara Bush says or does or does not say has absolutely no bearing on the current situation.

sorry i may have misunderstood you to be saying there was a presidential moratorium (altho in a way i guess that's true since the pentagon's moratorium on photographs at dover was started by the first president bush).

Wrong again.


Since the end of the Vietnam War, presidents have worried that their military actions would lose support once the public glimpsed the remains of U.S. soldiers arriving at air bases in flag-draped caskets.

To this problem, the Bush administration has found a simple solution: It has ended the public dissemination of such images by banning news coverage and photography of dead soldiers' homecomings on all military bases.


In March, on the eve of the Iraq war, a directive arrived from the Pentagon at U.S. military bases. "There will be no arrival ceremonies for, or media coverage of, deceased military personnel returning to or departing from Ramstein [Germany] airbase or Dover [Del.] base, to include interim stops," the Defense Department said, referring to the major ports for the returning remains.


But the photos of coffins arriving at Andrews and elsewhere continued to appear through the Clinton administration. In 1996, Dover made an exception to allow filming of Clinton's visit to welcome the 33 caskets with remains from Commerce Secretary Ronald H. Brown's plane crash. In 1998, Clinton went to Andrews to see the coffins of Americans killed in the terrorist bombing in Nairobi. Dover also allowed public distribution of photos of the homecoming caskets after the terrorist attack on the USS Cole in 2000.

The photos of coffins continued for the first two years of the current Bush administration, from Ramstein and other bases. Then, on the eve of the Iraq invasion, word came from the Pentagon that other bases were to adopt Dover's policy of making the arrival ceremonies off limits.

"Whenever we go into a conflict, there's a certain amount of guidance that comes down the pike," said Lt. Olivia Nelson, a spokeswoman for Dover. "It's a consistent policy across the board. Where it used to apply only to Dover, they've now made it very clear it applies to everyone."